Refunding "Review" Fees?

rainchild · #1 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 07:46 AM

If you are going to reject a site submitted to your directory can you refund the review fee and still claim that you are not selling links? Cant see it myself.

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Rainchild, think from the customers point of view. Why on the earth somebody needs a review from you? Everyone submit the site to directories just for the purpose of getting a link.

Despite the fact I am also a directory owner I was and still am one of those customers and you are missing the point. What we are discussing are the directories which charge to review a site before listing them and those which charge you to list your site in their directory. My argument is that you keep the review fee if you reject the site. That much to me is common sense. Whereas there are others who believe otherwise.

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If I need a review, I will ask some blogger to write it and I will get a quality contextual, anchor text link, not some crappy link from the directory page that not even indexed by SEs.

We are not talking about the same thing but I could argue the point you are trying to make about "a quality contextual, anchor text link". As a buyer I would be concerned with the company I am seen to keep. I would be careful of asking any old blogger to write you a "review". The same applies to directories. Most of the directories I set up get indexed within three weeks and the links work like a dream That is until Google decides its listing too much crap or that its "selling" links or that its bad company and they devalue it. That is a crappy directory in my books. But I accept that we all have different opinions and whilst some of us are more often than not right and others are more often than not wrong, that's what makes it so much more interesting.

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Personally I am trying to avoid directories that don’t have a refund option and also suggest to all my customers to do the same.

Brave man. But understand that's why customers should take the time to look around and learn to think for themselves.

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With “No Refund” we just open for ourself a way to keep customers money without providing a real service that our directories intend to provide. And by mentioning that fact in our terms we just trying legally cover our asses

And what is the service we are charging for that our directories intend to provide? Are you saying its OK to charge for listing sites? If not what are you saying? I think you will find that we actually agree on that point.

rainchild · #2 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 08:09 PM

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Okay, here is my story.

Directory was accepting adult content sites since 2004. Not a long time ago they change the TOS, and YES they put in the terms that adult submissions not going to be refunded. After changing the TOS they didn’t remove any adult content listing. They still have all of them.

Since 2005 or 2006 (don’t remember exactly) I have this directory on my list of directories that accept adult content. One of my employees was submitting the client site to directories, around 50 – 70 of them. He did a quick look on pornography listings listed in that category and without even thinking that this directory may not allow adult content proceed with sponsor submission, around 100 US.

So… directory didn’t accept submission…

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Hmmm... not very pleasant situation

On one hand Directory owner with ToS that probably mention non-refundable condition and on another hand doing right things. But then again if he is rejecting adult content, then he shouldn't charge you in the first place.

Depending on how long ago it's happened, you can file charge back and stop payment and this nuisance or you can publish his name and associate him with piranhas and warn others but regardless what you decide to do remember ToS are on his side, that is of course if you capable to prove otherwise.

Without any doubts in my mind you will have a fight on your hands if guy is a moron and care less about what others would say and do.

wrong wrong wrong

Its attitude that counts and this is an attitude that is patently wrong. The directory owner is 100% correct. He could possibly be a little more flexible in the circumstances but he is certainly not wrong. Its these ingrained attitudes which have to change. The absolute rights that are no longer right, the attitudes which are just plain wrong.

chovy · #3 (**permalink**) 03-21-2008, 11:19 PM

I can see it from both points of view...as an owner you may have accepted gambling, adult content in the beginning to build up links, then realized a year or two later that you don't want those sites reflected on your site anymore.

On the other hand, buying a "lifetime" link would lead me to believe that my link will be there until the directory is shut down.

I recommend one of two things:
1) refund the money (the easiest solution, everyone wins - they get their money back, you get to remove the link)
2) Clearly state in your ToS that you have the right to remove links w/o refund (not very friendly, and may result in bashing your directory on the web)

3) Expire your regular links after one year by default, or require a one-year subscription - (this gives both parties the option to continue).

Just my 2 cents from a directory owner's perspective.

rainchild · #4 (**permalink**) 03-26-2008, 12:31 AM

Your points are all valid but there is one fundeental flaw in your approach.

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(not very friendly, and may result in bashing your directory on the web)

And its real, horribly real. Its also all wrong and its got to change. Everyone of us use this approach to the links industry. We all defer to the buyers and that's why we are eventually going to force Google's hand.

We should rather start with Google and recognise that selling links is not allowed in any shape or form and that its important to draw this line. We don't have any Guidelines on our directories and we do refund the sites we reject. At the same time however I recognise that I need to get those guidelines in place and institute a strict No Refunds policy. I also believe that a long as one makes a point of ensuring that webmasters submitting their sites to a directory understand that they are not paying for a link and have no rights in this regard, even Google will allow directory masters to refund fees in certain circumstances.

It just a question of attitude.

chovy · #5 (**permalink**) 03-26-2008, 10:56 AM

I sort of agree with that statement, but refunding a few dollars vs. having your business bashed on forums that you rely on for referrals is the wise thing to do.

rainchild · #6 (**permalink**) 03-26-2008, 09:15 PM

You could be right but on the other-hand that's just the sort of thing that might get noticed by the right people. Are you looking for submissions from Bid directories or professional consultants looking for long term value? What's important? Getting accepted by the culture club or building for the future? Show me a list of directories that only accept Google Friendly sites which are going to see it through the next five years. This industry is all smoke and mirrors and you actually want to be different at a time like this. Getting beat up by the sort of people who know no better might be a damned good way of doing it. It all goes on record.

This industry is built on quick bucks. Short term thinking is the order of the day. That's why I started building my own directories three years ago. When I get a client I want to hang onto them. I build links for them and when I place a link I want to see that site growing. And I still want to see it in ten years time. Can that be said of the directories you find on these forums? No, most have a shelf life of three years and that is if they make it through the first winter. Then there are many people with a lot of experience in this game who believe that those that do make it, are doomed anyway. This is why we are committing time and resource and diversifying. Its why we are building sites with a purpose around each of our listings.

The crunch is coming. Google has no other options. Those self same people that you are so concerned about, are forcing their hand. Can they be stopped? I don't think so. This industry is run by scammers and spammers and its all about making money whilst the sun shines and sod the rest.